Posts by King Solomon

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

Recovery said:

I can study medicine all my life and never have to practice it. I can study how to teach all my life and never have to practice it. Your point is moot and weak. STUDYING does not REQUIRE PRACTICE.

Fail. You're still overlooking that in order to complete the EDUCATION phase of formalized study (as Moses, Daniel, etc did), you MUST practice as a student clinician. In your analogy, if a MD/JD student DOESN'T perform well on their clinicals (the PRACTICE portion, whether working with patients or clients), you WILL wash out of your program and not get your degree (and hence, cannot get licensed). The med school won't waste additional time on a student if they cannot practice, and we had many students who washed out before graduation (25% of the class) simply because they couldn't think on their feet, translating their didactic (book-learned) knowledge into clinical practice to work with real-life patients. They froze, seized....

Besides, practically speaking, crushing student debt WILL insure that most people who go to the bother of getting a professional education in a field like medicine or law WILL get their license to practice, as that's the payoff for all the hard work and debt (lawyers often fail the bar the 1st time, so have to retake it later, being side-lined or working under another lawyer's shingle until they do).

Question for King Solomon: If I study the religion of Islam extensively, with its associated religious texts and its history, am I considered a practicing Muslim? Why or why not?

Your question is moot: as I and Leolaia have posted a few pages (and weeks) ago, the Bible says that Moses was TRAINED in the secret arts of the Egyptians, as a member of the Royal Family, and in the historical context of Egypt that means he practiced to learn (in fact, there was mention of his being a master Magician, even training OTHER magicians; hence his magic was able to beat the Pharoah's court-magicians in the famous staff show-down, although he appealed to the power of uttering YHWHs name as an explanation as to why his magic prevailed, was stronger than the magicians who called on the name of an Egyptian diety).

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

Recovery, here's the question we all want you to answer:

Finkelstein said:

Another passing thought to the original article on JWfact's web site ....

Is a child who is playing with a toy that resembles a magician (Sparlock), practicing magic or just studying magic ?

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

Yeah, Recovery has started another thread, par for the course.

My tentative diagnosis is someone who takes on the World to reaffirm his own quivering faith.

Frankly, I'd like to see his answer to Finkelstein's question, as Recovery's wrapped a logical noose around his neck by trying to argue that it was OK for Daniel et al to STUDY magic, as if they weren't PRACTICING it. OK, let's accept that flawed argument (for reasons I've pointed out above) for a moment.

Then why is it NOT OK for Caleb to simply play with Sparlock, when it's hardly either studying or practicing magic?

(And I know the counter-argument Recovery SHOULD use, but I'm not saying, LOL!)

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

RBIH, he's ignored OT stuff in the past, even in this thread, and I'd agree: it's better to start a new thread on that topic and see if you get him to bite there.

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

Finkelstein said:

Another posing thought to the original article on JWfact's web site ....

Is a child who is playing with a toy that resembles a magician (Sparlock), practicing magic or just studying magic ?

and if so why should a toy of this kind be taken away ?

Oh, I was going to answer that, but I won't. I'll bite my tongue, as I want to see how Recovery answers it to see if he even knows the official JW policy.

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

RBIH, the topic is jwfacts.com article on magic and Sparlock....

Retrovirus said:

Now there are those that use the argument that David is said to have studied omens, magic, and as well as Daniel when he was educated in the practices of the Babylonians. But notice the distinction that has to be made when one is arguing from this viewpoint. Daniel and David are thought to have studied, not practiced such things. Jehovah does not say 'YOU must not study magic or omens'. He says 'YOU must not practice it.'

Now I understand this argument and how it relates to Sparlock! If Caleb had only studied Sparlock, his Mum would have been fine with it!

Irony is, Caleb's not even PRACTICING or STUDYING magic, but simply playing with a toy that MIGHT stumble others by giving them the impression that he endorses the practice and/or study of magic.

Recovery seems to think he's a member of the GB, and able to rewrite JW policy at will to make it more harmonious with HIS beliefs. He's treading on dangerous ground there, as he's likely to be asked the big question in a JC ("Do you believe the GB is the sole channel for God to express his Will to mankind?")

But per Recovery, studying magic is OK, but just NOT practicing it.

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

RBIH, that's OT to this thread (magic, not child molesters).

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

Recovery said:

KingSolomon wants to argue over who has the authority to restrict an attorney from practicing law and who does not.

No, I really don't; I simply pointed out your asinine statement that suggests you truly don't have the beginning of a clue of what you speak. Zilch. Next time, come up with an analogy where you actually understand the mechanisms at play before you propose using it to make a comparison....

The source of the suspension of the aforementioned license is not crucial to my illustration or the point I was making and therefore it does not invalidate my illustration. It doesn't matter if the attorney is restricted by the DA, the mayor, the governor, Michael Jackson, or the state board.

The point of the illustration is the VIOLATION of the prohibition, not the AUTHORITY behind it. So here's a simple question for you KingSolomon: If a lawyer's license is suspended and they continue studying law have they violated the prohibition from the state? Yes or no?

Sorry, but you cannot side-step MY point.

You mentioned Daniel/Moses/etc, and MY point was that in order to LEARN magic, they had to STUDY AND PRACTICE it; Moses trained under master magicians as taught in the colleges of his day that WERE designed to teach pharoahs, leaders in gov't, etc.

Just like in order to learn to practice law or medicine, you MUST study and practice it under the tutelage of a mentor before getting a license to practice on your own. In medicine, you get didactic (study) and clinical (practice) training. The same applied to magic in Moses day, as part of magic involved healing (eg the staff associated with the serpent, with Moses' healing of snake-bite victims in the Wilderness, etc).

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

Now there are those that use the argument that David is said to have studied omens, magic, and as well as Daniel when he was educated in the practices of the Babylonians. But notice the distinction that has to be made when one is arguing from this viewpoint. Daniel and David are thought to have studied, not practiced such things. Jehovah does not say 'YOU must not study magic or omens'. He says 'YOU must not practice it.'

Now here's an illustration. Imagine that your license as an attorney has been suspended temporarily and you are ordered by the district attorney to not practice any form of law, as your license is now suspended. Would you violate the law if you study your old college law books, examine precedent court cases, and learn new techniques by watching other lawyers present their cases? Of course not. You were instructed to not practice law.

The illustration/point is completely moot because there are many Jehovah's Witnesses who are doctors and who have prominent jobs in the medical field. To become a doctor, an extensive background is needed in Biology. And what does a great portion of biological instruction consist of? Evolution. So is it wrong for JW's to go to schools where they will have to learn about evolution (something contrary to the Bible)? Of course not. The point of Daniel and David learning magic is clearly fallacious and the true 'weak argument' as all can now see.

Recovery, I'm randomly extracting your comments, since it's frankly too fatiguing to wade thru the nonsense you posted. So I grabbed the above, as it's exemplary of your absurdity.

Having been licensed to PRACTICE my profession in a State (which is required by law), I can assure you the education and training process involves actually PRACTICING the skills under the tutelage of a LICENSED professional, before being allowed to sit for testing to be licensed to practice under one's own license.

In fact, that's a REQUIREMENT: the professors offering training MUST be licensed to practice in order to teach others, in order for students to PRACTICE under the umbrella of their license while in training.

PS your ignorance is showing again when you discussed DAs: District Attorneys have no ability to restrict another lawyer's practice. That is the SOLE responsibility and authority of the State Board (whether the State Bar, a group of attorneys and non-lawyers who are appointed by the Governor to manage the licensing and regulation of lawyers; in the case of physicians, there's a State Medical Board, comprised mostly of lawyers licensed in the state to administer administrative and judicial matters such as complaints reported about physicians, etc). District Attorney represent the Gov't in prosecution of criminal offenses.

And for the record, a great portion of biogical sciences education does NOT involve "learning evolution". In my case, a 300-level course in evolution wasn't encountered in my biological sciences curriculum until the 3rd year of undergrad education (not that evolution doesn't appear before then: it MUST, as evolution IS the unifiying theory underlying biological sciences. Without it, you simply have a massive amount of facts and figures that aren't unified into a comprehensible form).

So YOUR argument is a FAIL, and reflects YOUR ignorance.

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

King Solomon

Don't forget the magic word, "Amen" to seal the deal.

And don't forget magic's phrases like "abracadabra".

From: http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/361874/jewish/Abraham.htm

Abraham was also fully aware of the magical and idolatrous uses that could be developed from these mysteries, and the Talmud states that Abraham had a tract dealing with idolatry that consisted of 400 chapters. There is also a Talmudic teaching that Abraham taught the mysteries involving “unclean names” to the children of his concubines. This is based on the verse, “to the sons of the concubines that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and he sent them away…to the lands of the East” (Genesis 25:6). These gifts consisted of occult mysteries, which then spread in eastern Asia. It is no wonder that in many of the eastern religions we find parallels to Kabbalistic teachings.

One of the most simple and striking examples of the transmition of the occult is that every child knows a magician uses the phrase “Abracadabra.” This magical expression is none other than an Aramaic extension of the Hebrew abra— I will create, k’adabra—as I will speak—the knowledge of creation using letters and names as documented in Sefer Yetzirah.